Its taken me a week to really focus my thoughts on a meeting I attended from a group that purports to train individuals on defending the creationist position. I have to say that I was less than impressed. Perhaps I caught them on an off night, perhaps not. My biggest frustration is that if this is the caliber of argument that a Christian is expected to present when confronted by an evolutionist, it is no wonder they think we are idiots (see cartoon )
The meeting started with what I am sure is a well meaning God fearing older gentleman sharing a testimony on an article he read in the paper the past week. This article talked about the orbits of certain planets and their location in comparison to the sun during a rare eclipse. His proof that the Big Bang was false could be found in the precision of the orbits of the planets. Why? Because the big bang was an explosion and something as orderly as the orbits could not come form an explosion. That's it....nothing about gravity and the attraction that large dense stars exert. This is anecdotal evidence at best. Now I am not saying that I believe in the Big Bang, but I am saying that if you are going to get into defending a biblical 7 day creation position, you can't use sentimentalism. You need to talk in facts and theory based on good assumptions. The proponents of the Big Bang would say that from a gravitational singularity there was a big bang that continues to expand the borders of the universe. They say this happened 13.7 billion years ago, and that over that time the gravity of larger objects have pulled smaller objects into orbits. From a scientific point of view this is compelling, but you can't defend against it by saying that order can't come from an explosion. If you take dynamite and stick it into a hill and detonate it you will get chaos....for a time. Then the dirt settles and you get structure, maybe different that before but order has been restored. I have no doubts the Big Bang is flawed, but this defense will never cut it if we want to actually compete in the realm of ideas.
The special guest speaker for the evening was a gentleman who was an associate pastor from the Philadelphia area. He wasn't an academic, and he wasn't a scientist. He was a theologically trained pastor. He had recently written a book on evolution and he was "exposing it for the fraud it was." I was hoping that this man would present the scientific approach that was needed to enter the intellectual discussion on the topic. I was disappointed. His presentation was an overview of his book, and it was again full of information where it was obvious that good research techniques were not done or the information that was presented was to evoke a emotional response. One example was a recent discovery of what looked like human skeletal remains of two hands. These remains were fossilized (a rare find). They were also found near some dinosaur fossils, another rare occurrence. Some scientist have theorized that they weren't human hands but large sea turtle fins. This pastor bragged about how he used a google picture search to find human skeletal hands. He then used this picture to convince us that they were human. What would have really pushed this point home was if he had shown us the a picture of actual sea turtle fins, but he didn't. Perhaps they were sea turtles, but because of the point he wanted to make, he only searched the evidence until he found what he wanted. He interspersed his talk with slides of school children and their learning evolution in public schools and a program to take these kids for an hour a day and teach them creationism and how they are coming to Christ as a result. That's great, but how does it expose evolution as false. His biggest argument spread throughout the presentation was that evolution was a natural promoter of racism, and because Hitler, and Stalin were racist, that evolution was barbaric....ergo false. His logic was impossible to flow on some of his points and it felt like he was trying every way to emotionally convince us that evolutions were completely evil. What really peeved me was the way he continually used scripture out of context to support whatever slide he was on. He was eisegetically preaching on creationism and doing the scripture a disservice.
3 comments:
The reason that people have a hard time defending creationism is simple...the evidence does not support literal creationism. For instance the simplest explaination for many pieces of evidence such as: shared ERVs, super-similar mtDNA, and shared DNA is common ancestry. I know many creationists are infact not idiots..many are brilliant at something, but typically those that are intelligent lack honesty. For instance Dr. Humphrey's is a pretty smart guy, too smart to make the errors seen in his equations modelling his creation-compatible cosmological model. Of course he was smart enough to know that the average person wouldn't find these errors and he knew that those that accept literal creationism would say that any expert who brought up the error was lieing. Unfortunately for Humphreys a couple of Christian Evangelicals who also happened to be astrophysicists reviewed his work and wrote a peer reviewed journal article exposing the error. Even the wackos out there, like Kent Hovind, are brillant at something, Hovind can invent information so fast and make it sound plausible to those who don't understand the subject that they just accept it. Of course tacking "Dr." on the front of your name helps, even though his Ph.D means less than my 2 ordinations and various certifications that required nothing more than a little time in front of a computer. Of course I wouldn't tend to call Hovind intelligent, but I would say he is a brilliant liar and is very good at reading people and playing to a crowd. If a creationist or creation scientist or whatever ever wants to be seen as credible they would have to do one thing...debate a panel of scientists, including a biologist, an astrophysicist, a geologist, and a biochemist. They would then need to explain why so much of each of those fields is wrong using evidence, not "well my holy book says so." Then again an honest, and intelligent creationist would know that they don't need to convince anyone else of their belief and would realize they couldn't using evidence. Acceptance of creationism can only be based on faith alone, that is it. It is like believing in any diety, dogma, mythology, or similar belief system. Faith and acceptance of the teachings of that belief system are based on your personal experience and personal beliefs, not on evidence, while science is a whole other object, based solely on evidence and based solely on the faith that everything you are working with actually exists and that you aren't a brain in a jar having a dream, but since no evidence suggests that you are a brain in a jar then you really can't even include that in science. Creationists need to see the line between religion and science and realize they are not the same thing. They need to realize Theories are not belief systems, but self consistent models that explain factual phenomena using the evidence we have. Of course no one can prove any theory, they can substantiate them further, they can revise them, or they can disprove them.
The reason that people have a hard time defending creationism is simple...the evidence does not support literal creationism.
Not true at all. I have seen and heard many creationists give ample evidence for a literal 7 day theory. Ideas like the universe being created already “aged” are easy premises to follow and even supported within the text of scripture. Adam and Eve were created “aged”. They were instantly ready for work. Not something that an infant could really carry out. What were they to work? The garden. What would they eat? They would have died if they had to wait for the “new” trees to age then ripen to bare fruit.
As for the debate. The outcome would be the same. Each group is still relying on premise and theory. Both sides drawing conclusions based on what they see. A creationist wouldn’t really need to supply evidence as to why the other fields are wrong, heck! A creationist could just use the conclusions of those respective fields against each other to raise enough doubt to create the same chaos the evolutionists say we came from…
McShann/RAV: I agree. I have heard, read, and seen some very convincing creationist (ID) argumentation. The bottom line is not that "evidence" supports evolution -- it is the interpretation of the evidence. At least Creationists are honest, in that they willing admit to their presuppositions/worldview/weltenschaung that informs their interpretation of the evidence. Wakim's agrument for common ancestry for instance neglects the fact that it is a relatively new theory that was adopted after Darwinian evolution (ie, man evolved from apes) was disproved. Macro evolutionists refuse to recognize that their so-called "science" is informed more by a combination of devout atheism, materialism, and social anthropology than true science. Nuff said. (Sorry, I could go on and on...)
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